TWINS TRIVIA is hopefully a fun and informative site that will help you to better enjoy the Minnesota Twins and their wonderful history. “History never looks like history when you are living through it” – John Gardner, former Secretary of Health
A two-hour and 6 minute rain delay before last nights Twins game at Target Field started was no biggie for Twins starter Yohan Pino. After all, he has toiled in the minors for 10 years and waited 30 years and 175 days before making his Major League debut against the White Sox on Thursday.
The right-hander went seven innings, giving up two runs and five hits and one walk while striking out seven, but was lifted after 7 innings with the score knotted at 2-2. His seven strikeouts were the second most in franchise history in a debut, tying him with Darrell Jackson and Bert Blyleven, and trailing only Boof Bonser‘s eight strikeouts set in 2006.
Pino also became the oldest starting pitcher to make a big league debut in Twins history, passing Andrew Albers, who was 27 years and 304 days old when he made his debut with the Twins just last season. The Twins released Albers this past January allowing him to sign with a South Korean team. Albers ended up signing with the Hanwha Eagles of the Korea Baseball Organization. The oldest pitcher in franchise history to debut in the big leagues was Alex McColl who pitched in his first game for the Washington Senators in 1933 at the age of 39 years and 151 days.
Oldest Twins rookie pitchers to debut in big leagues and have at least one start
If you look at the list of pitchers on the list above you will see that none of them were a starter for the Minnesota Twins for very long and in most cases most of them did not pitch for the Twins or anyone else for any length o time. Les Straker did start two World Series games for the Twins in 1987. History seems to indicate that if you do not debut in the big leagues before your 26th birthday (at least with the Twins), the odds are very much against you. We can hope that Yohan Pino has better luck but don’t bet the farm on it. Kyle Gibson just missed being on this list because his big league debut occurred in 2013 at the age of 25 and 249 days.
As I was doing some historical research for this site the other day I was saddened to find out that former Twins catcher Bud Bulling had passed away this past March 8th in Salem, Oregon at the age of 61.
Terry Charles “Bud” Bulling was born on December 15, 1952 in Lynwood, California and was drafted as a catcher by the Minnesota Twins in the 14th round of the June 1974 amateur draft. Ironically the only other player drafted by Minnesota that year that went on to play for the Twins was another catcher that the Twins drafted in the second round, Butch Wynegar.
Bulling worked his way up through the Twins farm system and got his first call to the big leagues at the age of 24 to back up the Twins starting catcher who was none other than Butch Wynegar. Bulling made his big league debut on July 3, 1977 in the Twins 6-0 loss to the Chicago White Sox at Comiskey Park. In his only at bat that day Bud struck out against knuckleballer Wilbur Wood. Bud spent the remainder of the 1977 with Minnesota as the back-up catcher and appeared in 15 games hitting .156 in 32 at bats while knocking in 5 RBI with his 5 hits. Bulling spent the 1978 season with AA Orlando. In March of 1979 Bulling was purchased from the Twins by the Seattle Mariners.
Bulling spent the 1979 and 1980 seasons in the minors with the Spokane Indians before returning to the bigs in 1981. He caught Hall of Famer Gaylord Perry‘s 300th win in the Kingdome on May 6, 1982 going 2-for-3 with 2 runs scored and an RBI in the 7-3 win over the New York Yankees. After spending all of 1981 and 1982 with the Seattle Mariners Bud started the 1983 season hitless in 5 at-bats and was sent down to the AAA Salt Lake City Gulls where he played out his final season in pro ball. After leaving pro ball Bulling enjoyed spending time and traveling with his mother Iada.
Bud Bulling passed away on March 8, 2014 in Salem, Oregon at the age of 61 after a long battle with prostate cancer. He was survived by his mother Iada Bulling, his son’s Casey and Joshua and his three mullions (nieces) Sheri, Kandi, and Kerri.
Thank you for the memories Bud Bulling and may you rest in peace. We at Twins Trivia and Twins fans everywhere would like to pass on our condolences to the Bud Bulling family and their friends.
I spent a few minutes today talking with Bud’s teammate Mike Cubbage and he shared a story about Bud with me that you can listen to here.
Follow up – Mike Cubbage was kind enough to give his bat to the Bulling family so they can treasure it as a family keepsake. What a wonderful thing to do! Here is a nice photo after the family received the bat, the smiles tell you all you need to know.
The Twins finished spring training with a record of 9-16-3, their fewest spring wins since 1995 when they went 8-6. Aaron Hicks led the club in hits (17) for the second straight spring. The Twins drew 107,806 in attendance in 16 home dates surpassing the 100,000 mark for the 13th consecutive year. Two additional home dates were rained out. The team averaged 6,738 fans per game as compared to 6,697 fans per game in 2013.
The Twins have opened the season on March 31st twice before, once against the Tigers in 2003 and once against the Angels in 2008 and the Twins won both games. Yesterday’s 5-3 loss in Chicago to the mighty whities makes the team 2-1 on March 31. The team has never played a regular season game in March in Minnesota.
Paul Konerko didn’t play for the White Sox as Chicago began its season by beating the Twins 5-3 yesterday. Konerko had started his team’s season opener in each of the past 16 years (1998 through 2013); he and Todd Helton were the only major-league players to do that. With Konerko on the bench and Helton retired, the longest streak of consecutive opening-day starts now belongs to Torii Hunter, who extended his streak to 16 consecutive seasons (1999 through 2014) in the Tigers’ victory over the Royals.
Ron Gardenhire is just two wins away from becoming the fifth active manager to reach 1,000 victories and 60th all-time. The other four active managers with more wins are Bruce Bochy (1,530), Mike Scioscia (1,233), Buck Showalter (1,163) and Terry Francona with (1,121).
Minnesota Twins pitchers have finished dead last in the American League in strikeouts the last three years and you all know where the team has finished in the standing during that time frame. When the Twins came into existence in 1961 the SO/9 average in the American League was 5.2 SO/9 and it slowly climbed to 6.1 SO/9 in 1967 but then started sliding down to under 5.0 SO/9 from 1974 to 1983. Since then it started climbing and for the first time in 2012 it went above 7.0 went it hit 7.4 SO/9 and in 2013 it hit 7.7 SO/9 which is a new high water mark.
From 2006 through 2013 only one team in the AL has finished above the .500 mark in the standings when their pitching staff has had under 1,000 strikeouts and guess who that was? It was the 2008 Minnesota Twins team that finished second to the Chicago White Sox in 2008 when Gardy’s boys went 88-75 and lost game 163 in Chicago. When Twins pitchers have 1,000 or more strikeouts the team won less than 79 games only once and that was the 2000 Twins when they finished the season with a 69-93 mark. Twins pitchers have struck 1,000 or more batters only 10 times in 53 seasons and peaked with 1,164 KO’s in 2006 when the team had a franchise high 7.28 SO/9.
The Twins can spew all the “pitch to contact” babble they want but striking out hitters and winning games goes together like peanut butter and jelly. We can only wait and see what the new Twins pitchers can do. Ricky Nolasco has a career 7.4 SO/9 and Phil Hughes is 7.6 SO/9 so they should help improve the Twins sad 2013 6.11 SO/9 team mark.
So looking back all the way to 1961 what Twins pitchers have had the best SO/9 ratio in a given season? The table below shows the highest SO/9 ratio with a minimum of 50 innings. Not many starters on this list.
Looking over the Twins history here the best Twins career SO/9 ratio’s with a minimum of 100 innings pitched. How many of these pitchers were originally signed by the Twins? That would be eight.
Garrabrant (Brant) Ryerson Alyea was born in Passaic, New Jersey and will turn 73 on December 8th. His father’ s family was Dutch. Brant attended Rutherford High School, where he was famous for his long home runs. The 6’5″ right-handed hitting Alyea received a scholarship to Hofstra University and played for Hofstra from 1959 to 1962. Brant also played for the basketball team coached by Butch van Breda Kolff, leading Hofstra in rebounding in 1960–61. The 1959-1960 Hofstra team went 23-1.
The Cincinnati Reds signed Alyea as an amateur free agent in 1962 and assigned him to the class D Geneva Redlegs where he hit 32 home runs, knocked in 116 while hitting at a .319 clip. In his spare time he appeared as a pitcher in 2 games but after walking 3, giving up 3 hits and 3 runs in just 2 innings he decided his pitching career was over. In November of 1962 the Washington Senators selected Alyea from the Reds in the first-year player draft. Brant worked his way up the Senators minor league chain and was about to make his major league debut as a pinch-hitter against the California Angels on September 11, 1965 at D.C. Stadium when the Angels changed pitchers and Alyea was pinch-hit for before getting a plate appearance. The next day with an announced crowd of 840 in the stands, Senators manager Gil Hodges again called on Alyea to pinch-hit and this time he stepped up to the plate in the bottom of the sixth inning with one out and two runners on and on the very first pitch from Angels hurler Rudy May he hit a three run home run in his first big league at bat and became the first American Leaguer to make such an auspicious debut.
Although Alyea could hit for power, hitting for average was not so easy and it kept Alyea in the minors. Alyea spent all of 1966 and 1967 in the minors. In 1968 he had 150 at bats for the Senators and 237 more in 1969 and during those two season he had 17 home runs with a .259 batting average. Brant stayed sharp and picked up some extra money playing winter ball. He was the top home run hitter in Nicaragua in 1965–66 and set a record for home runs in the Venezuelan Winter League in 1968–69, blasting 18 in 50 games.
Twins owner Calvin Griffith was intrigued with the power hitting Alyea and offered Senators owner Bob Short a young infielder by the name of Graig Nettles but Short passed on the offer. On March 21, 1970 Griffith finally got his man and the Washington Senators traded Brant Alyea to the Twins for pitchers Joe Grzenda and Charlie Walters. Yes, that would be the same Charlie Walters that still writes for the St. Paul Pioneer Press today.
Alyea was the Twins opening day left fielder in 1970 at White Sox Park and what a day he had in a Twins 12-0 pasting of the mighty whitey’s. Brant went 4 for 4 with 2 runs scored, 2 home runs and had a club record tying 7 RBI. But that was just the beginning, Alyea had a torrid April. Playing in 17 games Alyea hit .415 with 5 home runs, 23 RBI with a 1.257 OPS. Alyea cooled off but still finished 1970 with a very respectable 16 home runs, 61 RBI and a .291 average in 258 at bats. Alyea appeared in all 3 of the 1970 ALCS games against the Baltimore Orioles but went 0 for 7 in what would turn out to be his only playoff experience. The rest of the Twins didn’t do much better, hitting just .238 and lost 3 straight games.
Alyea was also involved in a bizarre strikeout that ended in a 7-6-7 put out (yes, that’s left fielder to shortstop to left fielder!). Here’s how it happened, according to the Project Retrosheet (www.retrosheet.org) newsletter of May 1997: “From Dave Smith: How about a strikeout with the batter being retired 767? In the game of April 25, 1970, Tigers pitcher Earl Wilson struck out to end the seventh inning in the Twin Cities. Or so it appeared to everyone except Detroit third base coach Grover Resinger. He saw that Twins catcher Paul Ratliff trapped the pitch in the dirt, did not tag Wilson and rolled the ball to the mound. Resinger told Wilson to start running as most of the Twins entered the dugout. Earl got to first easily and headed for second. Since no one interfered with him, he started for third. By this time, Brant Alyea, who was trotting in from left field, heard Resinger shouting at Wilson. Alyea hustled to the mound but had trouble picking up the ball. Wilson headed for home where Twins Leo Cardenas and Ratliff had returned. Alyea finally picked up the ball and threw to Cardenas. Wilson turned back to third but was tagged out by Alyea for a K767. Rookie catcher Ratliff was charged with an error. After the game, Detroit catcher Bill Freehan said “If Alyea had been hustling, Earl might have made it [home]. Tell him [Alyea] to start coming in and off the field a little quicker.” The aftermath of the story is that Wilson pulled a hamstring muscle running the bases and had to leave the game.”
In 1971 Alyea seemed to lose his power although he was hitting .316 and didn’t hit his first home run until May 14. Manager Bill Rigney was losing confidence in Alyea and as his playing time decreased so did his performance and he finished the 1971 season with a dismal .177 average and just 2 home runs in 158 at bats. In November 1971 the Twins lost Brant Alyea to the Oakland A’s in the Rule 5 draft.
Alyea started the 1972 season in Oakland appearing in 10 games before being traded to the St. Louis Cardinals. After appearing in just 13 games as a Cardinal, Alyea for some unknown reason is returned to Oakland on July 23. Playing for the A’s in September Alyea pulls a muscle legging out a hit and ends up spending the 1972 postseason on the DL as his team beats the Detroit Tigers in the ALCS and the Cincinnati Reds in the World Series 4 games to 3. In November 1972 Oakland sent Brant Alyea to the Texas Rangers as the PTBNL in an earlier trade for Paul Lindblad. After failing to make the Texas Rangers team out of spring training in 1973 Alyea spent what turned out to be his final pro season with the Red Sox AAA team in Pawtucket. He hit just .212 with 6 home runs in 48 games and his baseball career was over at the age of 32.
The time that Brant Alyea spent with the Twins was short, just 173 games spread over two seasons. In 416 at bats he hit .248 with 18 home runs and 76 RBI. Nothing special about these numbers but yet he managed to have 7 RBI in a game twice. Twins players have only had 7 or more RBI’s in a game 17 times in 53 years but yet Brant accomplished this feat twice and the only other Twins player to do this twice is HOF Kirby Puckett. Puckett had 7,244 at bats and Alyea had just 416….
Alyea had a son Brant Alyea Jr., born out-of-wedlock in Nicaragua where Brant Sr. played winter ball. There is a wonderful piece that Peter Gammons wrote for Sports Illustrated back in June of 1986 about father and son meeting for the first time in many years that you can read here. The younger Alyea played in the minor leagues from 1985 to 1990 for the Blue Jays, Rangers and Mets but never achieved his goal of playing in the big leagues like his Dad did before him.
The Twins have been in Minnesota for 53 years and have played 8,455 games winning 4,204 and losing 4,243. (just a FYI, the Angels who also started play in 1961 have won 4,220 games). Over the 53 years and 8,455 games Twins starters have pitched 9 innings or more in a start exactly 300 times (3.55%). Keep in mind that I am talking 9 innings or more pitched in a start, not complete games.
But sometimes just going 9 innings does not get the job done as you can see in the table below. In these 71 games the Twins starter took the mound in inning number 10 and sometimes even innings 11 and 12. The last Twins starter to hurl more than 9 innings in a start was Brad Radke in 1997.
But only one starting pitcher for the Twins, Jim Merritt has gone 13 innings and that remains a team record that in today’s pitch count world will probably never be broken. The franchise record is 18 innings held by Hall of Famer Walter Johnson who went the distance in a 1-0 Washington Senators win over the Chicago White Sox at Griffith Stadium in just 2 hours and 50 minutes on May 15, 1918.
But it is not just starting pitchers that have toiled long and hard to win a game. Here I look at relievers who have pitched 7 or more innings of relief in a game and Ray Corbin holds the team record for pitching 10.1 innings of relief against the Tigers in 1975. Corbin who was a starter/reliever during his five years in Minnesota pitched in just 11 more big league games after this long relief outing allowing at least one earned run in each appearance and never again pitched in a big league game.
9/25/1965 – The Twins Mudcat Grant one-hits the Washington Senators to win the first game of the DH, 5 – 0 at D.C. Stadium. Senators Don Blasingame‘s double in the 3rd is the only hit for Washington; it is the 4th time that Blasingame has collected the only hit for his team. This is Mudcat’s 20th win of the season and he becomes the first African-American pitcher to win 20 games in the American League. The Twins win the night-cap 5-3.
9/25/1985 – Bert Blyleven beats the Texas Rangers 5-1 at Arlington Stadium and the Twins rack up win number 2,000.
9/25/2000 – In only the second three-team doubleheader in the majors since 1900 and first since Sept. 13, 1951, the Cleveland played host to two different teams, beating the White Sox 9-2 before losing to Minnesota 4-3. It was the Indians’ third doubleheader in six days. By the time Minnesota’s players arrived at the ballpark for their 4-3 win in Cleveland on Monday night, the only trace that Chicago had used the visitor’s clubhouse earlier in a 9-2 loss to the Indians was a pair of white socks left behind by one of the White Sox players.
9/25/2006 – The Twins beat the Kansas City Royals 8-1 at the Metrodome and clinch at least a wildcard playoff spot. This is the first time in history that the wildcard has come from the American League Central Division. It has been an amazing run from a 25-33 start and 11 1/2 games out of first as of June 7th.
9/25/2008 – The Twins cap a thrilling three-game sweep of the Mighty Whities to reclaim first place in the AL Central. The team came back from a 6-1 deficit to win the game on Alexi Casilla‘s walk-off single in the 10th inning for a 7-6 victory. After the game, manager Gardenhire was quoted as saying “I can’t even breathe” while closer Joe Nathan said that “this was the most intense series I have ever been a part of”. On the other side of the coin, White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen sighed and said “We wasted 26 innings in this town.”
9/25/2010 – The Twins scored five runs in the first inning and another five in the fifth before dropping an 11-10 decision in 13 innings at Comerica Park. It was the first time since relocating to Minnesota in 1961 that the Twins lost a game in which they scored at least five runs in each of two different innings. It happened only one other time in franchise history. That was on July 1, 1907, when the Washington Senators suffered a 16-15 loss to the Highlanders in the first game of a doubleheader at New York’s Hilltop Park.
Due to the extended rain delay of four hours and 23 minutes, the Chicago White Sox are offering fans with tickets to Sunday’s game a complimentary ticket to a home game in April 2014 (excludes Opening Day and Boston series). Once 2014 tickets go on sale, fans can bring their ticket stub or mail it to the U.S. Cellular Field box office to redeem it for a best available outfield reserved or upper level seat.
This past Saturday night the Twins and Tampa Rays game at Target Field was delayed by seven minutes at the start due to rain and delayed again after four innings for two hours and four minutes again due to rain. Down 4-0 and on their way to being shut out for the second day in a row and well on their way to their third straight 90 loss season maybe the Twins should have done a little something for the 1,000 or so fans that stayed for the duration of a 7-0 loss. Many Twins players have long ago given up on this season and started to plan their off-season get-aways and it appears that the Twins front office seems to have forgotten this years ticket buyers also. I wasn’t at that game on Saturday night so I don’t know for a fact that the Twins did nothing but todate I have not seen or read anything anywhere that the Twins threw those fans any kind of bone to thank them for staying to watch the remainder of a dismal game in crappy weather. I did hear that closer Glen Perkins bought some Twins fans a round of beers during the delay. Thanks Glen, very cool. Over 2.2 million fans have paid to see the Twins play this year and that is pretty darn good attendance for a team that is playing terrible baseball.
In full disclosure, I should mention that I have been a Minnesota Twins 20-game plan season ticket holder for many years but did not buy them this year. Why? Because we had seats in the top row of section 103 on the aisle next to section 104. There was an aisle to our left so as we looked towards home plate to watch the action all the people constantly walking up and down the aisle throughout the game blocked our view of play. The seats across the aisle in 104 were seldom used in 2012 so when the 2013 ticket renewal package arrived we asked to see if we could move to section 104 with our 20-game plan. The Twins said no way they want to sell 20 game plans in that section and after chatting with the Twins about this situation about once a month throughout the off-season we could not arrive at an agreement so we have ended up with no season tickets in 2013. We have attended fewer Twins games this season because of this but with the Twins poor play for the third year in a row this has actually been a blessing and has saved us a bunch of money on parking and concessions while we watched the games on TV. It now looks like nothing has changed for 2014 either, the Twins called the other day and asked if we wanted to get our 20-game plan again and I asked them if they were going to allow us to sit in section 104 and they said NO, they still don’t want to sell 20 game plans in that section. To my way of thinking this is unbelievably arrogant (and stupid) to not sell tickets to fans that want to attend Twins games when the team stinks and attendance is falling all around them.
The Twins used to be a fan friendly team but since Target Field was built it seems like the organization has found numerous ways to stick it to the fans. Heck, even the players seem to have that attitude. Over the years you could send a baseball card to a Twins player and 90% of the time you could expect to get your signed card back in the mail a couple of weeks later. This year I have sent about a half-dozen cards to various Twins players and not one card has come back. Trivial? Yes, but it still sends a message.
Maybe the Minnesota Twins organization has gotten too stale and set in their jobs. The Twins try to sell themselves as one of the top fan friendly organizations in baseball when it fits their needs but at times there are members of the Twins organization that come across as arrogant stuck up snobs that refuse to bend their so-called policies and keep doing things the same old way. I am not sure what it is going to take for change to take place in this organization, the Pohlad’s need to take a hard look at the entire structure of this organization and see what they can do to shake it up. That means from President Dave St. Peter on down to GM Terry Ryan, manager Ron Gardenhire, the coaching staff, the medical staff and yes, the Marketing staff that has done nothing since Target field was opened in 2010. Don’t get me wrong, the Twins have many great employees doing what they think is best for the organization with great passion but sometimes you can be in a position so long that you close your mind to new ways of doing things. The time has come for a big shake-up at Target Field both on the playing field and in all the Twins offices.
I personally value loyalty a lot but you can’t keep surrounding yourself with “yes” men and hope to get new ideas and new ways of doing things. Executives, Front office personnel, managers, and coaches, are really no different then the players themselves, they may have done a great job over the years but the time comes when you have to part ways like you did with Voila, Santana, Knoblauch, Cuddyer or a Morneau. The Twins have players on the field that just plain don’t belong in the big leagues and they have off the field personnel that don’t belong in their jobs either. The Minnesota Twins like any other business need new blood now and then and that time is now.
The Twins recently announced that there will be no ticket price increase for 2014, I will believe that when I see it in black and white and do a comparison between the ticket prices and plans for 2013 and 2014. I want to believe the Twins but…..
Twins fans are and will continue to watch through this off-season what the Twins organization does to improve this team from top to bottom. The Twins can brag about the 2014 All-Star game at Target Field all they want but it isn’t going to put butts in the Target Field seats and a better product on the field. Come on Mr. Pohlad, do something about this mess and do it quick because Twins fans are jumping off the band wagon left and right! If you need some help, give me a call.
Kevin Chapman‘s wild pitch scored Ryan Doumit with the go-ahead run in the 12th inning of the Twins’ 9-6 win at Houston. The last time Minnesota won a game in this manner was on September 20, 1984, when the White Sox’ Bert Roberge wild-pitched home Tom Brunansky in the 13th inning at the Metrodome.
The Twins are now 8-7 in extra-innings this season. Since the start of the 1961 season, the Twins have an all-time extra-inning record of 384-345-2. Twins Manager Ron Gardenhire seems to like extra-inning baseball and has a career-record of 107-72, a .598 winning percentage since he took the managers job in 2002. Gardy is just 7 wins short of getting 1,000 wins as a manager, I think he is going to get it soon. A real nice achievement!
Did you know that prior to the Twins retiring Bert Blyleven‘s number 28 that it was the lowest number that no MLB team had retired?
Brian Dozier hit home run number 17 last night and is the all-time Twins leader in home runs hit by a second baseman in a single season. Dozier now has 51 extra base hits this season, the only Twins second baseman with more are Chuck Knoblauch with 53 in 1994 and 1995, Todd Walker with 56 in 1998 and the leader is Chuck Knoblauch with 62 in 1996.
The Twins finished August having struck out 291 times in 30 games, the highest total of strikeouts by any team in one month in major-league history. That works out to 9.7 strike outs per game. When you attend a Twins game be sure to hold on to your hat cause there is a lot of whiffing going on.
Only one player in Twins history has won the Twins team triple crown by leading the team in home runs, RBI, and average, who was he?
The Twins seven minor league teams finished the 2013 regular season with a 411-345 record, good for a .544 winning percentage. Not too shabby at all. The AAA-Rochester Red Wings at 77-67, the High A-Ft. Myers Miracle at 79-56 and the Cedar Rapids Kernels at 88-50 are all play-off bound. The only teams with losing records were the AA-New Britain Rock Cats at 66-76 and the Rookie league GCL Twins at 28-32. The Rookie league Elizabethton E-Twins finished their season at 37-31, good for third place. The DSL (Dominican Summer League) Twins finished in fourth place with a 36-33 record. Since 2000, the Twins minor league teams have had a losing record twice, in 2010 and 2011. If you are interested in learning more about the Twins minor league history, stop by http://wp.me/P1YQUj-1jd .
Ron Gardenhire was pushing the right buttons on Thursday night. Pinch-hitter Chris Herrmann drove in pinch-runner Doug Bernier with the winning run in the bottom of the ninth as the Twins topped the White Sox, 4-3. Minnesota had only one other walk off victory for Gardenhire in which a pinch-hitter and pinch-runner combined for the winning run. That was in 2009, also against the White Sox, when Jose Morales drove in Nick Punto for the victory. We were at this game last night and it was a fun game to watch, but then again I always enjoy a Twins victory over the “Mighty Whitey’s” no matter what their record might be.